Aloha Colleagues,
I write to ask for you all to give me a little feedback on an IEP goal that I see for a student who is about 5 years old. It seems odd to me. One of the O&M goals says:
When given a tactile map, Jane Doe will use the map to complete 10 campus route with 90% accuracy 3 of 4 opportunities.
The 90 percent accuracy thing rubs me the wrong way, but I'm particularly unsure about whether someone should be training a young child to try to read a tactile map and implement it when this student is still working on basic cane technique. I don't really ever teach people to use tactile maps, especially not to give them a map and expect them to follow it like it's one of the treasure maps that my friends and I used to make for each other at recess when I was that age.
What do you guys think about this?
Mahalo,
Justin
Justin M. Salisbury, MA, NOMC, NCRTB, NCUEB
Honolulu Chapter
National Federation of the Blind of Hawaii
Phone: 808.797.8606
Email: President at Alumni.ECU.edu
I think it depends upon the child. Some kids will relate well to a tactile
map while others won't understand it.
From: NOMC <nomc-bounces at lists.nbpcb.org> On Behalf Of Justin Salisbury
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2019 10:55 PM
To: NOMC at lists.nbpcb.org
Subject: [Nomc] Question about IEP Goals
Aloha Colleagues,
I write to ask for you all to give me a little feedback on an IEP goal that
I see for a student who is about 5 years old. It seems odd to me. One of the
O&M goals says:
When given a tactile map, Jane Doe will use the map to complete 10 campus
route with 90% accuracy 3 of 4 opportunities.
The 90 percent accuracy thing rubs me the wrong way, but I'm particularly
unsure about whether someone should be training a young child to try to read
a tactile map and implement it when this student is still working on basic
cane technique. I don't really ever teach people to use tactile maps,
especially not to give them a map and expect them to follow it like it's one
of the treasure maps that my friends and I used to make for each other at
recess when I was that age.
What do you guys think about this?
Mahalo,
Justin
Justin M. Salisbury, MA, NOMC, NCRTB, NCUEB
Honolulu Chapter
National Federation of the Blind of Hawaii
Phone: 808.797.8606
Email: President at Alumni.ECU.edu
I agree with Michael. Also, like Justin, I have trouble with "90%". How is the scoring determined? In general, I am a proponent of tactile graphics to the umpteenth degree, but I know full well that this method does not work as well for some individuals as for others. Nearly any blind person can become decent or better with cane use, mental mapping, problem-solving, etc. with SDCT. But tactile maps are currently so under-developed, under-used, under-taught, and sometimes time/resource intensive that pushing this modality on a blind person may be quite problematic right now. Also, it may be undetermined at this point how high-quality and consistent production of and education with tactile graphics may benefit blind individuals. In other words, how many blind people could benefit if everything becomes available, good and consistent? Nevertheless, I think that tactile graphics need to be given more attention by more blindness professionals. There are a lot of developments I know of that would make any past or present Optacon user jump for joy. Some will probably succeed and some probably won't. The soonest development may come out in 2019, but we never should be too sure too soon. I have established communication with multiple organizations who are developing tactile technology for the blind. There are indeed other projects in addition to the Graphiti. Still, if anyone wants to know why I am so optimistic about tactile graphics technology, and if you are going to the NFB national convention this July, please do examine the Graphiti at the American Printing House for the Blind table if indeed they will be showing off their Graphiti prototype. I know of other organizations who are working on technology that is conceptually much more similar than different. Some of these projects are using different underlying hardware to raise the dots, and some of the techniques are much less expensive than others, even if some functionality is lost. Additionally, it was in a recent 2019 Braille Monitor article that tactile graphics were discussed at some length. This discussion was centered on the Tactile Graphics and Education and Careers Symposium that the NFB held in October of 2018. One of the tactile graphics technologies that was discussed was from an Italian organization whose research does focus largely on independent travel. One can read more about this in the said article. When in May of 2018 I told the Italian organization about the Symposium in October of that same year, the person who replied acted as if she did not know about the Symposium beforehand. Needless to say, I care a lot about tactile graphics and the next generation/s of haptic technology in general. I do think we are close to gaining the ability to more naturally fit tactile graphics and other haptic modalities into some O&M training. At that point, we can teach blind students with tactile graphics when appropriate. This can only occur if we have down-to-earth research and available and affordable technology. I think it's inconsistent with the NFB and NOMC philosophy to be perminently pecimistic about technology in independent travel. I am trying to be general rather than preachy. But these things are important to me and probably many others too. Sincerely' Ben
On May 14, 2019, at 9:54 PM, Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu> wrote:
Aloha Colleagues,
I write to ask for you all to give me a little feedback on an IEP goal that I see for a student who is about 5 years old. It seems odd to me. One of the O&M goals says:
When given a tactile map, Jane Doe will use the map to complete 10 campus route with 90% accuracy 3 of 4 opportunities.
The 90 percent accuracy thing rubs me the wrong way, but I?m particularly unsure about whether someone should be training a young child to try to read a tactile map and implement it when this student is still working on basic cane technique. I don?t really ever teach people to use tactile maps, especially not to give them a map and expect them to follow it like it?s one of the treasure maps that my friends and I used to make for each other at recess when I was that age.
What do you guys think about this?
Mahalo,
Justin
Justin M. Salisbury, MA, NOMC, NCRTB, NCUEB Honolulu Chapter National Federation of the Blind of Hawaii Phone: 808.797.8606 Email: President at Alumni.ECU.edu LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-salisbury ResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin_Salisbury
?Once social change begins, it cannot be reversed. You cannot un-educate the person who has learned to read. You cannot humiliate the person who feels pride. You cannot oppress the people who are not afraid anymore.?
Cesar Chavez
_______________________________________________ NOMC mailing list NOMC at lists.nbpcb.org http://lists.nbpcb.org/listinfo.cgi/nomc-nbpcb.org
Good afternoon,
I will preface my comments with I am not an NOMC; however, I do have an eight-year-old. What I recall from school is that I began learning how to read a map in kindergarten. By first grade, I was definitely able to follow multistep instructions to move my character on the simplistic map of a city that I was given. I believe we were taught map reading and moving from one point to another because we needed to understand how to follow directions, but I went to school many years ago. I do not see map reading taught as often as it was when I was in school. Understanding maps helped me to understand directions and distances. It also made solving word problems about train schedules and the like easier. I also noticed that my son was introduced to maps in school in kindergarten. He was introduced to mazes before kindergarten. I introduced him to cardinal directions at age three. I fully realize that understanding cardinal directions and special relationships is not the question here, but by learning to follow a well-drawn map, in this case tactile map, a student can learn to follow directions, begin to understand special relationships, begin to understand iconic and symbolic representation, and other concepts which can be invaluable later. In short, I think this is a somewhat age appropriate goal.
I also think this is a terrible goal as written. I would prefer to see a goal such as the following, but I was not in that child?s IEP meeting.
Jane Doe will understand basic elements of a tactile map including cardinal directions and iconic representation of objects in a known environment, her school, and be able to use a tactile map to follow directions from one point to another in three out of four trials with a minimum of twenty trials presented each grading period and measured by her educational assistant.
If I am reading between the lines correctly, the goal here is really for Jane to be able to get to ten needed places within her school environment. A tactile map is being used as an adaptive aid. If I am correct, these goals should be separated. Getting to places does not necessarily require a map, but map reading skills are also important.
And, those are my two cents. Thank you for the discussion. I have enjoyed reading others? comments.
Best,
Lucy
From: NOMC [mailto:nomc-bounces at lists.nbpcb.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Vercellone
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2019 10:52 AM
To: Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu>
Cc: NOMC at lists.nbpcb.org
Subject: [EXT] Re: [Nomc] Question about IEP Goals
I agree with Michael. Also, like Justin, I have trouble with "90%". How is the scoring determined? In general, I am a proponent of tactile graphics to the umpteenth degree, but I know full well that this method does not work as well for some individuals as for others. Nearly any blind person can become decent or better with cane use, mental mapping, problem-solving, etc. with SDCT. But tactile maps are currently so under-developed, under-used, under-taught, and sometimes time/resource intensive that pushing this modality on a blind person may be quite problematic right now. Also, it may be undetermined at this point how high-quality and consistent production of and education with tactile graphics may benefit blind individuals. In other words, how many blind people could benefit if everything becomes available, good and consistent? Nevertheless, I think that tactile graphics need to be given more attention by more blindness professionals. There are a lot of developments I know of that would make any past or present Optacon user jump for joy. Some will probably succeed and some probably won't. The soonest development may come out in 2019, but we never should be too sure too soon. I have established communication with multiple organizations who are developing tactile technology for the blind. There are indeed other projects in addition to the Graphiti. Still, if anyone wants to know why I am so optimistic about tactile graphics technology, and if you are going to the NFB national convention this July, please do examine the Graphiti at the American Printing House for the Blind table if indeed they will be showing off their Graphiti prototype. I know of other organizations who are working on technology that is conceptually much more similar than different. Some of these projects are using different underlying hardware to raise the dots, and some of the techniques are much less expensive than others, even if some functionality is lost. Additionally, it was in a recent 2019 Braille Monitor article that tactile graphics were discussed at some length. This discussion was centered on the Tactile Graphics and Education and Careers Symposium that the NFB held in October of 2018. One of the tactile graphics technologies that was discussed was from an Italian organization whose research does focus largely on independent travel. One can read more about this in the said article. When in May of 2018 I told the Italian organization about the Symposium in October of that same year, the person who replied acted as if she did not know about the Symposium beforehand. Needless to say, I care a lot about tactile graphics and the next generation/s of haptic technology in general. I do think we are close to gaining the ability to more naturally fit tactile graphics and other haptic modalities into some O&M training. At that point, we can teach blind students with tactile graphics when appropriate. This can only occur if we have down-to-earth research and available and affordable technology. I think it's inconsistent with the NFB and NOMC philosophy to be perminently pecimistic about technology in independent travel. I am trying to be general rather than preachy. But these things are important to me and probably many others too.
Sincerely'
Ben
On May 14, 2019, at 9:54 PM, Justin Salisbury
Go Lucy! That sounded great. Sounds like you and your son are definitely in a more advanced part of the country than I was. I got cardinal directions from my dad but never in school. Even a map reading come out we only learned that north is the top of the map. Perhaps, if it had been a tactile map, I might have learned more about how the rivers and highways run. Sent from my iPhone
On May 15, 2019, at 6:06 PM, Alexander, Lucy, CFB
wrote: Good afternoon,
I will preface my comments with I am not an NOMC; however, I do have an eight-year-old. What I recall from school is that I began learning how to read a map in kindergarten. By first grade, I was definitely able to follow multistep instructions to move my character on the simplistic map of a city that I was given. I believe we were taught map reading and moving from one point to another because we needed to understand how to follow directions, but I went to school many years ago. I do not see map reading taught as often as it was when I was in school. Understanding maps helped me to understand directions and distances. It also made solving word problems about train schedules and the like easier. I also noticed that my son was introduced to maps in school in kindergarten. He was introduced to mazes before kindergarten. I introduced him to cardinal directions at age three. I fully realize that understanding cardinal directions and special relationships is not the question here, but by learning to follow a well-drawn map, in this case tactile map, a student can learn to follow directions, begin to understand special relationships, begin to understand iconic and symbolic representation, and other concepts which can be invaluable later. In short, I think this is a somewhat age appropriate goal.
I also think this is a terrible goal as written. I would prefer to see a goal such as the following, but I was not in that child?s IEP meeting.
Jane Doe will understand basic elements of a tactile map including cardinal directions and iconic representation of objects in a known environment, her school, and be able to use a tactile map to follow directions from one point to another in three out of four trials with a minimum of twenty trials presented each grading period and measured by her educational assistant.
If I am reading between the lines correctly, the goal here is really for Jane to be able to get to ten needed places within her school environment. A tactile map is being used as an adaptive aid. If I am correct, these goals should be separated. Getting to places does not necessarily require a map, but map reading skills are also important.
And, those are my two cents. Thank you for the discussion. I have enjoyed reading others? comments.
Best, Lucy From: NOMC [mailto:nomc-bounces at lists.nbpcb.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin Vercellone Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2019 10:52 AM To: Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu> Cc: NOMC at lists.nbpcb.org Subject: [EXT] Re: [Nomc] Question about IEP Goals
I agree with Michael. Also, like Justin, I have trouble with "90%". How is the scoring determined? In general, I am a proponent of tactile graphics to the umpteenth degree, but I know full well that this method does not work as well for some individuals as for others. Nearly any blind person can become decent or better with cane use, mental mapping, problem-solving, etc. with SDCT. But tactile maps are currently so under-developed, under-used, under-taught, and sometimes time/resource intensive that pushing this modality on a blind person may be quite problematic right now. Also, it may be undetermined at this point how high-quality and consistent production of and education with tactile graphics may benefit blind individuals. In other words, how many blind people could benefit if everything becomes available, good and consistent? Nevertheless, I think that tactile graphics need to be given more attention by more blindness professionals. There are a lot of developments I know of that would make any past or present Optacon user jump for joy. Some will probably succeed and some probably won't. The soonest development may come out in 2019, but we never should be too sure too soon. I have established communication with multiple organizations who are developing tactile technology for the blind. There are indeed other projects in addition to the Graphiti. Still, if anyone wants to know why I am so optimistic about tactile graphics technology, and if you are going to the NFB national convention this July, please do examine the Graphiti at the American Printing House for the Blind table if indeed they will be showing off their Graphiti prototype. I know of other organizations who are working on technology that is conceptually much more similar than different. Some of these projects are using different underlying hardware to raise the dots, and some of the techniques are much less expensive than others, even if some functionality is lost. Additionally, it was in a recent 2019 Braille Monitor article that tactile graphics were discussed at some length. This discussion was centered on the Tactile Graphics and Education and Careers Symposium that the NFB held in October of 2018. One of the tactile graphics technologies that was discussed was from an Italian organization whose research does focus largely on independent travel. One can read more about this in the said article. When in May of 2018 I told the Italian organization about the Symposium in October of that same year, the person who replied acted as if she did not know about the Symposium beforehand. Needless to say, I care a lot about tactile graphics and the next generation/s of haptic technology in general. I do think we are close to gaining the ability to more naturally fit tactile graphics and other haptic modalities into some O&M training. At that point, we can teach blind students with tactile graphics when appropriate. This can only occur if we have down-to-earth research and available and affordable technology. I think it's inconsistent with the NFB and NOMC philosophy to be perminently pecimistic about technology in independent travel. I am trying to be general rather than preachy. But these things are important to me and probably many others too.
Sincerely' Ben
On May 14, 2019, at 9:54 PM, Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu> wrote:
Aloha Colleagues,
I write to ask for you all to give me a little feedback on an IEP goal that I see for a student who is about 5 years old. It seems odd to me. One of the O&M goals says:
When given a tactile map, Jane Doe will use the map to complete 10 campus route with 90% accuracy 3 of 4 opportunities.
The 90 percent accuracy thing rubs me the wrong way, but I?m particularly unsure about whether someone should be training a young child to try to read a tactile map and implement it when this student is still working on basic cane technique. I don?t really ever teach people to use tactile maps, especially not to give them a map and expect them to follow it like it?s one of the treasure maps that my friends and I used to make for each other at recess when I was that age.
What do you guys think about this?
Mahalo,
Justin
Justin M. Salisbury, MA, NOMC, NCRTB, NCUEB Honolulu Chapter National Federation of the Blind of Hawaii Phone: 808.797.8606 Email: President at Alumni.ECU.edu LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-salisbury ResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin_Salisbury
?Once social change begins, it cannot be reversed. You cannot un-educate the person who has learned to read. You cannot humiliate the person who feels pride. You cannot oppress the people who are not afraid anymore.?
Cesar Chavez
_______________________________________________ NOMC mailing list NOMC at lists.nbpcb.org http://lists.nbpcb.org/listinfo.cgi/nomc-nbpcb.org _______________________________________________ NOMC mailing list NOMC at lists.nbpcb.org http://lists.nbpcb.org/listinfo.cgi/nomc-nbpcb.org
The guys make some good points. Detector maps may be high-quality or low-quality. Have you been the O&m teacher manufacturing or in charge of these maps? Is this JaneDoe a particular student or is it a generic boilerplate IEP for all blind children in that school? But my first concern when I read your email, even before I went on to see what Ben and Mike had to say was that a five-year-old might be a little young for this. I don?t work with little ones enough anymore to know what is age-appropriate for youngsters. Does anybody else think that she might be a little too young to be addressing tactile maps at this time? I would want to make sure her fundamental cane skills were in place and the other things been mentioned about mental mapping and landmarks. The map won?t do her any good if she cannot travel while using it. Sent from my iPhone
On May 14, 2019, at 9:54 PM, Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu> wrote:
Aloha Colleagues,
I write to ask for you all to give me a little feedback on an IEP goal that I see for a student who is about 5 years old. It seems odd to me. One of the O&M goals says:
When given a tactile map, Jane Doe will use the map to complete 10 campus route with 90% accuracy 3 of 4 opportunities.
The 90 percent accuracy thing rubs me the wrong way, but I?m particularly unsure about whether someone should be training a young child to try to read a tactile map and implement it when this student is still working on basic cane technique. I don?t really ever teach people to use tactile maps, especially not to give them a map and expect them to follow it like it?s one of the treasure maps that my friends and I used to make for each other at recess when I was that age.
What do you guys think about this?
Mahalo,
Justin
Justin M. Salisbury, MA, NOMC, NCRTB, NCUEB Honolulu Chapter National Federation of the Blind of Hawaii Phone: 808.797.8606 Email: President at Alumni.ECU.edu LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-salisbury ResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin_Salisbury
?Once social change begins, it cannot be reversed. You cannot un-educate the person who has learned to read. You cannot humiliate the person who feels pride. You cannot oppress the people who are not afraid anymore.?
Cesar Chavez
_______________________________________________ NOMC mailing list NOMC at lists.nbpcb.org http://lists.nbpcb.org/listinfo.cgi/nomc-nbpcb.org
Jane and others...I agree....I sent this to Justin yesterday but accidentally didn?t ?reply to all?: Yes, I agree with you. At age 5, that is way too young.? The tactile map may be simple, however, but to get ten routes out of that, will be difficult so the map may be too complex. Wow! I don't think little 5-year-olds are even introduced to the map in preschool/kindergarten... . sighted or not.Merry-Noel Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad On Wednesday, May 15, 2019, 1:06 PM, Jane Lansaw <widearc2000 at gmail.com> wrote: The guys make some good points. Detector maps may be high-quality or low-quality. Have you been the O&m teacher manufacturing or in charge of these maps? ?Is this JaneDoe ?a particular student or is it a generic boilerplate IEP for all blind children in that school? ?But my first concern when I read your email, even before I went on to see what Ben and Mike had to say was that a five-year-old might be a little young for this. ?I don?t work with little ones enough anymore to know what is age-appropriate for youngsters. ?Does anybody else think that she might be a little too young to be addressing tactile maps at this time? ?I would want to make sure her fundamental cane skills were in place and the other things been mentioned about mental mapping and landmarks. The map won?t do her any good if she cannot travel while using it. ? Sent from my iPhone On May 14, 2019, at 9:54 PM, Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu> wrote: #yiv2093362151 #yiv2093362151 -- _filtered #yiv2093362151 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2093362151 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2093362151 {panose-1:2 11 6 9 4 5 4 2 2 4;}#yiv2093362151 #yiv2093362151 p.yiv2093362151MsoNormal, #yiv2093362151 li.yiv2093362151MsoNormal, #yiv2093362151 div.yiv2093362151MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv2093362151 a:link, #yiv2093362151 span.yiv2093362151MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2093362151 a:visited, #yiv2093362151 span.yiv2093362151MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv2093362151 span.yiv2093362151EmailStyle17 {font-family:sans-serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv2093362151 .yiv2093362151MsoChpDefault {font-family:sans-serif;} _filtered #yiv2093362151 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv2093362151 div.yiv2093362151WordSection1 {}#yiv2093362151 Aloha Colleagues, ? I write to ask for you all to give me a little feedback on an IEP goal that I see for a student who is about 5 years old. It seems odd to me. One of the O&M goals says: ? When given a tactile map, Jane Doe will use the map to complete 10 campus route with 90% accuracy 3 of 4 opportunities. ? ? The 90 percent accuracy thing rubs me the wrong way, but I?m particularly unsure about whether someone should be training a young child to try to read a tactile map and implement it when this student is still working on basic cane technique. I don?t really ever teach people to use tactile maps, especially not to give them a map and expect them to follow it like it?s one of the treasure maps that my friends and I used to make for each other at recess when I was that age. ? What do you guys think about this? ? Mahalo, ? Justin ? Justin M. Salisbury, MA, NOMC, NCRTB, NCUEB Honolulu Chapter National Federation of the Blind of Hawaii Phone: 808.797.8606 Email:?President at Alumni.ECU.edu LinkedIn:?https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-salisbury? ResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin_Salisbury ? ? ?Once social change begins, it cannot be reversed. You cannot un-educate the person who has learned to read. You cannot humiliate the person who feels pride. You cannot oppress the people who are not afraid anymore.? ? Cesar Chavez ? _______________________________________________ NOMC mailing list NOMC at lists.nbpcb.org http://lists.nbpcb.org/listinfo.cgi/nomc-nbpcb.org _______________________________________________ NOMC mailing list NOMC at lists.nbpcb.org http://lists.nbpcb.org/listinfo.cgi/nomc-nbpcb.org
I was in junior high when I first learned the map of my home state. It was a part of my Missouri history peace in whatever history class I was taking back then. It was difficult because it was visual but I think it was a good age. I didn?t know if we were just a little delayed or if that was normal. Was attending a protestant parochial school at the time and it was a little behind in a lot of the public school areas. Sent from my iPhone
On May 15, 2019, at 1:27 PM, Merry-Noel <owinm at yahoo.com> wrote:
Jane and others... I agree....I sent this to Justin yesterday but accidentally didn?t ?reply to all?:
Yes, I agree with you. At age 5, that is way too young. The tactile map may be simple, however, but to get ten routes out of that, will be difficult so the map may be too complex. Wow! I don't think little 5-year-olds are even introduced to the map in preschool/kindergarten... . sighted or not. Merry-Noel
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
On Wednesday, May 15, 2019, 1:06 PM, Jane Lansaw <widearc2000 at gmail.com> wrote:
The guys make some good points. Detector maps may be high-quality or low-quality. Have you been the O&m teacher manufacturing or in charge of these maps? Is this JaneDoe a particular student or is it a generic boilerplate IEP for all blind children in that school? But my first concern when I read your email, even before I went on to see what Ben and Mike had to say was that a five-year-old might be a little young for this. I don?t work with little ones enough anymore to know what is age-appropriate for youngsters. Does anybody else think that she might be a little too young to be addressing tactile maps at this time? I would want to make sure her fundamental cane skills were in place and the other things been mentioned about mental mapping and landmarks. The map won?t do her any good if she cannot travel while using it.
Sent from my iPhone
On May 14, 2019, at 9:54 PM, Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu> wrote:
Aloha Colleagues,
I write to ask for you all to give me a little feedback on an IEP goal that I see for a student who is about 5 years old. It seems odd to me. One of the O&M goals says:
When given a tactile map, Jane Doe will use the map to complete 10 campus route with 90% accuracy 3 of 4 opportunities.
The 90 percent accuracy thing rubs me the wrong way, but I?m particularly unsure about whether someone should be training a young child to try to read a tactile map and implement it when this student is still working on basic cane technique. I don?t really ever teach people to use tactile maps, especially not to give them a map and expect them to follow it like it?s one of the treasure maps that my friends and I used to make for each other at recess when I was that age.
What do you guys think about this?
Mahalo,
Justin
Justin M. Salisbury, MA, NOMC, NCRTB, NCUEB
Honolulu Chapter
National Federation of the Blind of Hawaii
Phone: 808.797.8606
Email: President at Alumni.ECU.edu
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-salisbury
ResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin_Salisbury
?Once social change begins, it cannot be reversed. You cannot un-educate the person who has learned to read. You cannot humiliate the person who feels pride. You cannot oppress the people who are not afraid anymore.?
Cesar Chavez
_______________________________________________ NOMC mailing list NOMC at lists.nbpcb.org http://lists.nbpcb.org/listinfo.cgi/nomc-nbpcb.org
_______________________________________________ NOMC mailing list NOMC at lists.nbpcb.org http://lists.nbpcb.org/listinfo.cgi/nomc-nbpcb.org
Growing up first in a suburban area, and later in a more rural part of western Pennsylvania, learning to understand cardinal directions and how to read maps, was simply a part of the culture. My father was a sportsman who had enjoyed hunting and fishing, and I grew up exploring the forests trails and back roads, so it was just natural to learn these things. Also, my father emphasized these skills, as did my schools, as far as that goes.
I think that introducing these skills as early as possible is desirable, but I do have some concern that the nature of the goals as written appears to be making a big push in the immediate year, but I have to wonder if this is something that will continue beyond this time frame for this child. I sort of under stood these concepts when I was five, but I would say that my skills didn?t become solidified until I was closer to ten or eleven. Children do learn more quickly than adults, but I think they learn better if their exposure is in the natural course of experiences, rather than a highly structured environment. So often instruction in public schools tends to be short and intense, rather than gradual and sustained. It also tends to be in isolation from the real world, rather than experience driven. So, while I think learning these skills as a young child is perfectly appropriate, I have concerns as to whether the approach being employed here is going to be the most effective.
Jeff
From: NOMC <nomc-bounces at lists.nbpcb.org> On Behalf Of Jane Lansaw
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2019 6:35 PM
To: Merry-Noel <owinm at yahoo.com>
Cc: NOMC at lists.nbpcb.org
Subject: Re: [Nomc] Question about IEP Goals
I was in junior high when I first learned the map of my home state. It was a part of my Missouri history peace in whatever history class I was taking back then. It was difficult because it was visual but I think it was a good age. I didn?t know if we were just a little delayed or if that was normal. Was attending a protestant parochial school at the time and it was a little behind in a lot of the public school areas.
Sent from my iPhone
On May 15, 2019, at 1:27 PM, Merry-Noel
Jeff, I think you are exactly right in wanting to see these skills and others taught over a long period of time but what actually happens is short, unsustained teaching of concepts and skills.
Young children understand iconic representations better than symbolic ones, but the skill of understanding a symbolic representation is important to develop. Understanding symbolic representation begins to immerge around age 10 to 12 years; therefore, the skills needed to read maps must be revisited over and over to be developed to any level of effectiveness. I think what I would like to see in all IEP?s for blind children and those who are able to perform grade level work is that the child is learning the same skills at the same time as the children without an IEP. I wonder how many blind children are not taught to a sufficient degree to read bar charts, line graphs, and pie charts, not to mention how many are not expected to read at the same rate as their sighted peers. I recently sat in two IEP meetings for high school students. Both IEP meetings provided for the accommodation of the student to have a raised desk, so that the student could read 18 point bold font or larger within four inches. The reading speeds at 45 and 60 words per minute were praised. I wanted to cry. Braille was not recommended and deemed inappropriate to be taught. Our blind children should learn to read maps; should learn to read charts and graphs; and should learn to do those things that their sighted counterparts are doing, but they should not be forced or made to believe that they cannot go anywhere without a tactile map. Sighted kids go plenty of places without a tactile map and I have never seen a sighted kid use a map of any kind in a school to get around. I have seen kids use maps in schools to get around for the purpose of learning to read a map, but every kid I have seen at school learns, when given the opportunity to do so and the expectation to do so, the way to the classroom, office, bathroom, and cafeteria as well as the playground, gym, and library. For that matter even toddlers are able to get around their houses, day care facilities, and other familiar environments.
Justin, I agree with you that the 90% does not make much sense. Are they expecting the child to make it 90% of the way to the desired destination, or make it to the bathroom or class 90% of the time? And, what are the parameters? May the child ask for directions or assistance? These are rhetorical questions, and I realize I am writing to the choir.
One of my pet peeves is poorly written IEP goals. I have two children with IEP?s. I have been rewriting goals for the past twelve years for staff. The most common mistake I see is a goal that cannot reasonably be measured. The second most common mistake I see in goals is that the goal does not address the desired outcome or that the team does not really know what they want to see happen. On Monday, I participated in my son?s IEP meeting. One of the goals suggested was to have him reduce a particular behavior by 10% during each grading period. The behavior was countable and they defined exactly, after discussion, what would constitute that particular behavior, but when I asked what the current frequency is, I was told that they do not have that data. My response was until you have that data you will not know if he is meeting the 10% reduction, so you have developed a goal that you cannot measure.
Percentages of common actions such as walking to the library or other locations on a school campus are impossible to measure without a test. They happen too often and teachers and aids have too much to do than to record every instance the child walks to a location. In my opinion, what happens with these types of goals based on a percentage is that when the grading period closes, the case manager or teacher or whoever is doing the reporting thinks back to the last couple of weeks and makes a subjective assessment of progress. This may or may not be a true measure of progress, and even if the teacher thinks that the child is making progress, without data no one knows how much or how little progress is being made.
And, now choir, I shall step off the soap box. *grin* I hope you all have a wonderful day!
Best,
Lucy
From: NOMC [mailto:nomc-bounces at lists.nbpcb.org] On Behalf Of Altman, Jeff
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2019 6:59 AM
To: Jane Lansaw <widearc2000 at gmail.com>; Merry-Noel <owinm at yahoo.com>
Cc: NOMC at lists.nbpcb.org
Subject: [EXT] Re: [Nomc] Question about IEP Goals
Growing up first in a suburban area, and later in a more rural part of western Pennsylvania, learning to understand cardinal directions and how to read maps, was simply a part of the culture. My father was a sportsman who had enjoyed hunting and fishing, and I grew up exploring the forests trails and back roads, so it was just natural to learn these things. Also, my father emphasized these skills, as did my schools, as far as that goes.
I think that introducing these skills as early as possible is desirable, but I do have some concern that the nature of the goals as written appears to be making a big push in the immediate year, but I have to wonder if this is something that will continue beyond this time frame for this child. I sort of under stood these concepts when I was five, but I would say that my skills didn?t become solidified until I was closer to ten or eleven. Children do learn more quickly than adults, but I think they learn better if their exposure is in the natural course of experiences, rather than a highly structured environment. So often instruction in public schools tends to be short and intense, rather than gradual and sustained. It also tends to be in isolation from the real world, rather than experience driven. So, while I think learning these skills as a young child is perfectly appropriate, I have concerns as to whether the approach being employed here is going to be the most effective.
Jeff
From: NOMC
Hi Lucy,
I absolutely agree with you, far too often the approach is based on a performance model, rather than a mastery orientation, and this means that not only is it likely the child is not truly grasping the concepts being. Taught, but the teacher has no indication that this is the case, because they are measuring performance only. I would go one step further, in that often these goals are written with objectives that are not under the student?s control, rather than focusing on the things the student needs to experience and practice that will create transferable skills. This combination of misguided goal setting practices significantly increases the likelihood that the child will develop a set of splinter skills without the necessary underlying network of understanding required to function outside of the specific learning environment in which the skills were taught. In other words, the skills are a set of shiny beads, but the thread that hold them together to form a necklace is pulled away the moment the teacher leaves the relationship, and the student is then left with a hand full of disconnected beads.
Jeff
From: Alexander, Lucy, CFB
This IEP goal is typically written. A person will achieve a stated goal by a certain degree in a certain time period. Possibly the maps are simple. With the changing technology, tactile graphics are easier to produce and more readily available for young children. I often have very young children using tactile graphics for simple map making, data collection, and spatial awareness. As for the 90%, this is just a typical degree to which a child will perform the task to be considered measurable. I no longer use this model. It doesn?t lend itself well to our paradigm. I use the NOMA to create goals and objectives where the degree of measurement is based on an increase in overall score. Hope this helps. Kristen
On May 14, 2019, at 9:54 PM, Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu> wrote:
Aloha Colleagues,
I write to ask for you all to give me a little feedback on an IEP goal that I see for a student who is about 5 years old. It seems odd to me. One of the O&M goals says:
When given a tactile map, Jane Doe will use the map to complete 10 campus route with 90% accuracy 3 of 4 opportunities.
The 90 percent accuracy thing rubs me the wrong way, but I?m particularly unsure about whether someone should be training a young child to try to read a tactile map and implement it when this student is still working on basic cane technique. I don?t really ever teach people to use tactile maps, especially not to give them a map and expect them to follow it like it?s one of the treasure maps that my friends and I used to make for each other at recess when I was that age.
What do you guys think about this?
Mahalo,
Justin
Justin M. Salisbury, MA, NOMC, NCRTB, NCUEB Honolulu Chapter National Federation of the Blind of Hawaii Phone: 808.797.8606 Email: President at Alumni.ECU.edu LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-salisbury ResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin_Salisbury
?Once social change begins, it cannot be reversed. You cannot un-educate the person who has learned to read. You cannot humiliate the person who feels pride. You cannot oppress the people who are not afraid anymore.?
Cesar Chavez
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participants (8)
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benvercellone＠gmail.com -
bullis.michael＠gmail.com -
jeff.altman＠nebraska.gov -
Lucy.Alexander＠state.nm.us -
owinm＠yahoo.com -
PRESIDENT＠alumni.ecu.edu -
snowytears＠aol.com -
widearc2000＠gmail.com