Jetti thanks for thinking of me as you know I have had the privilege of living, working, teaching and training people who are blind in Africa, Asia Europe and North America and because you asked I will share my observations and comments. One writer distengouses communist governments as though it may be different, in my direct observation the form of government has little impact on people seeking or receiving medical services, because for whatever the reason in under developed countries the following get in the way. The culture is tribal and one first goes to the tribal elder or to the witch doctor and stops there: one lives in such a remote area that it is not possible: ones family is to ignorant that there is a need for a doctor, that is that God created you this way so you live ?insha?alllah? or in English if God wills?: There is simply no money: and they went to a doctor but the care was no good. Often I have seen and ridden with UN health Care teams who swarm on a location for a day or two and try to do acute care but they are just hit and run and sometimes they get a person to the Western world for some treatment or another but the percentage of people that they reach is not even close to being statistically relevant. About canes: I have used all types of materials to train people with, obviously very few people can buy canes from Western world suppliers their fore I have discovered that the only way to sustain this is to use what is in the local environment. One person suggested bamboo that is fine unless it does not grow in the area. The lesson I learned is to first make the local blind person/people and the local non blind people a part of brainstorming how, what and who can make canes. This way I shift the planning and ownership to the locals so that it becomes their knowledge and their skills, usually what happens is that any tree will do as long as the wood has been dried the key obviously is the commitment from the humans. The one thing that I try to engrain is the length of the cane, I don?t fool around with the bullshit argument about which is better the short or the, blablablabla, I just state that this is the way it is the cane must be from the mouth to the ground. In the places where I get some contrary discussion about the length are from the sighted school teachers who have had the misfortune of taking some training from the sighted fools from Perkins International America or a few other European based likewise foolish sighted organizations. However, it is almost 100% effective when I ask them if the person doing the teaching was blind or sighted, and I say to them I am blind and use it all the time and everywhere and I am telling you this is as it should be and that ends the conversation because unlike Western people most of the world knows good since when they hear it or see it. The ideas of how or why does a blind person know they needed it? I think that the writers here hit most of the points I will just embellish a bit in the hopes that it might be interesting to someone. Culture, Culture, Culture, that is what rules regardless if it is family culture or religious culture or village culture or the culture of the nation. We can teach all we want but it will not replace the cultural norms that have been established for centuries. Yes people will learn and yes people will understand the need but the default will always be to help each other, the blind will always be led either by a group of other blind people with varied levels of sight or by a sighted one, and sometimes you will find the blind person traveling alone, however the culture is that people do not travel alone. They travel in packs blind or sighted, and yes blind people get around in their daily routine. But all of the teaching in the world is not going to stamp out the care that is within the people and they are always going to walk with a blind person always going to help, besides in most places people have nothing else to do anyway. Also I am guessing that in the majority of cities around the world no matter what the skill a blind person just cannot cross a street by themselves, there are no traffic lights, there are no traffic laws, the pedestrians do not have the right-of-way, I have tried in many of these huge third world cities and it is just not possible, they do not even know what the presence of the cane means.. As for bringing people over for training I hope it is not taking the resources from an American who will use them, because I saw many, many, blind people who had been to America for training and then back to their home country and I promise you that there was no cane use going on because when they are back in the country the culture dominates. Finally I will say that what I have written I do not see as a negative or depressive reality, it is just what it is: the the type of training that does survive and thrive in cultures is the training of the mind, learning skills of computer, Braille, reading those skills stick and people use them to get jobs in some countries but if not jobs they use them to be valuable to their friends and families. I always teach travel, but have no expectations that it will ever be fully used but if it is used at all then all is good. My latest and current project is getting Braille math and science materials in to the schools because beyond the elementary levels blind children do not take any math or science around the world. From: Jedi Moerke [mailto:loneblindjedi at samobile.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 4:38 AM To: j.michaeljones at live.com Cc: nomc at lists.nbpcb.org Subject: Re: [Nomc] [NOMC] A question for your consideration I copied Mike Jones on this email because I believe he has a relevant experience to this discussion. Mike, I would be very eager to hear your thoughts as you have been in exactly the situation. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 9, 2016, at 1:43 PM, David Nietfeld > wrote: One of my students was working for a group that did training on different eye surgeries throughout the world. We discussed that in some countries when someone loses there sight they are just dismissed and not expected to do much. We all know this, however something I didn?t realize is that there are many communist countries that you do not go to the doctor or do much of anything unless you are told to. She said this was one of the biggest problems they faced, They could not help but a fraction of the estimated group they expected to. This may be a big barrier to overcome even to Trane people on proper mobility skills as well. Well to answer the first question, I like bamboo. It is flexible and can grow many different climates depending on the genus and species. You can even put a screw in the end wrap that end with some strong thread and a bit of glue and you can put a metal chrome cane tip on it. David Nietfeld From: NOMC [mailto:nomc-bounces at lists.nbpcb.org] On Behalf Of Lansaw,Jane (DARS) Sent: Monday, February 08, 2016 7:50 AM To: Deb and Jeff Altman; nomc at lists.nbpcb.org Subject: Re: [Nomc] A question for your consideration Jeff, this is an interesting discussion. So let?s assume I?m not aware of American culture or attitudes on blindness. Why am I making a cane for myself? Deja?s prot?g? in Barbados got the idea somewhere that it might be handy to have a probe in front of him. How can we spread that idea? Occasionally totally blind folks pick it up as a natural survival method. Get something to clear the path or sit in the corner all of one?s life. That isn?t always the case and even so, blind folks with a little vision fall through the cracks. I did and I live in this country. I didn?t know how a cane could make my life easier because I had some vision and thought it was only for totally blind people. Someone has to put the word out that it?s a good low vision tool too, especially regarding depth perception. Once people know they need canes they will find a way to get or make them. Before we had fiberglass or even aluminum canes we had wood. Before we had trained professionals to teach we had blind people inventing their own survival skills with a wooden stick. I remember a story about a guy in Louisiana who came to town with a tree branch to replace a broken or lost cane. He told me his VR counselor said he looked like Moses coming out of the wilderness. In Jernigan?s speech, Is History Against Us, we learned about John Metcalf. He had a stick that was as tall as he was. How did he get the idea? Would he have done all the things he is purported to do if he hadn?t had a nice long probe to clear his way? The first thing we need to do is sell the concept of the cane and the only way to do that is to get blind people into the areas where they can be visible. One thing that concerns me about Deja?s prot?g?, is will he go home? So many immigrants get inside the US and realize how much better it is than home and want to stay. That?s how most of us got here. We see this among sighted people in higher professions such as medicine and engineering. They don?t want to take the new skills home because they want to live here. We can?t blame them but I wish I could say to Deja?s prot?g? and others, go home and spend as much time teaching teachers as we spent teaching you and when you have 5 people back home who can do what you can do, then you can come back if you are driven to live here. We?re expending resources to get visible, successful blind people in your area to spread the word so don?t just come here and hide out. Pay for your training by paying it forward to someone back home. I know I rambled a bit but that was what went through my mind. Now how can we raise the money to bring people over to learn about the cane? From: NOMC [mailto:nomc-bounces at lists.nbpcb.org] On Behalf Of Deb and Jeff Altman Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2016 1:07 PM To: nomc at lists.nbpcb.org Subject: [NOMC] A question for your consideration Hello Everyone, I would like to start a disscussion here, well, more of a brain storming session. From my contacts on Facebook, it has become clear to me that many blind people outside of the United states simply do not have the sort of opportunities that would allow them to become successful. The first issue is access to just the basics, starting with the long white cane. Now, there have long been programs to try to send canes to these places, and to some degree they are successful, but still the need isn't being met. So, here is what I want to ask all of you: Imagine you need to make a cane for yourself, but the stuff you normally would use, fiberglass, aluminum , and the like simply isn't available. What would you use, and how would you use it to make the cane you needed? My thought is that perhaps we could find some solutions that would allow folks in these situations to be able to either make their own canes, or to find someone that has the skills and access to the materials to do it within their own communities. Jeff Altman _______________________________________________ NOMC mailing list NOMC at lists.nbpcb.org http://lists.nbpcb.org/listinfo.cgi/nomc-nbpcb.org