Hi Nickie, Jane, and all other colleagues,
I want to first offer one clarification on how I?m thinking about this. From some of my private exchanges with some of you following my first post, I realize that I need to articulate one thought better. Consider the following generic policy:
?If the consumer chooses to attend a postsecondary training program and requires financial support for room and board, the VR agency will only sponsor the room and board if the training program is located more than X miles away from the consumer?s permanent residence.?
In this setup, I believe this creates a doughnut effect for the student?s choices, where students will then be compelled to consider institutions that are either very close or further than X miles away from home. Think about laying a doughnut on the map, with the hole centering over the consumer?s home. Inside the hole, there is a little area where there may be a few schools that are close enough that commuting is realistic. Outside the hole, for all the gooey, delicious, sugar-coated part of the doughnut, those schools are out of consideration. After you get X miles away and reach the outer rim of the doughnut, those schools become considered again.
Because living away from your parents is part of preparing for employment, many VR consumers will make that a priority, but it will come at the expense of considering institutions that lie underneath that doughnut that is covering parts of the map.
Policies that limit a VR consumer?s ability to request help covering room and board limit the effectiveness of a VR program. If the policy allows support when attending some schools but not others, it skews the options for the consumers.
To address a point that Jane made, I don?t think that VR paying for a dorm is pointless if your parents live in the same area. I?m not criticizing the people who live at home while going to school, but not all parents support the freedom and growth of their kids the same way. To be frank, there is a lot of peer-reviewed research in higher education journals teaching us that college students who live on campus are more successful than college students who live off campus. I am not aware of a reason why this same correlation would not exist for blind college students. Part of the explanation is also that students who live on campus are right there with university resources. There were definitely times during my undergrad years when I walked over to the library at 11 PM to get something or slid a paper under a professor?s door at 7 AM. I also found it very easy to meet up with study groups because I lived in the dorms. When you are right there with all the resources and can just walk to them, that makes a big difference. On top of the proximity to campus resources, the different mindset that we get into when we know that we are not under our parents? roof is part of what helps us develop into people who function autonomously.
Maybe this idea needs to become a research project rather than an advocacy initiative at this point, but I don?t see the harm in asking RSA to issue formal guidance if they haven?t already.
Mahalo and aloha,
Justin
Justin Mark Hideaki Salisbury
he/him/his
Phone: 808.797.8606
Email: President at Alumni.ECU.edu
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-salisbury
ResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin_Salisbury
?Once social change begins, it cannot be reversed. You cannot un-educate the person who has learned to read. You cannot humiliate the person who feels pride. You cannot oppress the people who are not afraid anymore.?
Cesar Chavez
From: Nickie Pearl <njp at twc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 6:53 PM
To: Jane Lansaw <widearc2000 at gmail.com>
Cc: Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu>; NOMC Mailing list <nomc at lists.nbpcb.org>
Subject: Re: [Nomc] Idea about VR Policy Initiative
Good evening!
First off I?ll speak from a mother of two sighted daughters. I know the importance of living in a dorm on their own to gain those independent living skills. My youngest daughter went to school only 11 miles away from our home and lived in the dorm. The experience she gained was priceless.
As Jane stated, we all know there are blind individuals who need this life experience, but may for what ever reason not be able to live independently. The forced hand of VR to decide that for a young adult is absurd, especially since we all know most VR conselors do not have a grasp on blindness related skills.
I personally have a bad taste in my mouth for VR and would champion any changes brought forth in this area.
No, not all young blind individuals can handle life on their own, but htey should sure be giving the chance to try. It should not be up to VR to decide their future.
I also understand that advocacy is a huge part of the VR process and then again most young people or their families may not realize all of their rights. More training and information should be given in this area as well.
I would be excited to see a resolution in this area.
Thank you!
Respectfully,
Nickie Pearl
502-489-4457
njp at twc.com
On Mar 23, 2021, at 6:34 PM, Jane Lansaw > wrote:
?I don?t think that VR clients should be forced to go to a school close to home just to save money. I think that going to school far from home is a good idea for all the reasons you stated. Any counsel who tries to talk somebody into going to a school close to home just to make it cheaper, isn?t doing her or his job.
That said, I understand why sometimes a counselor may feel that a client has behaved in a manner that doesn?t demonstrate willingness to stick with a program. Sometimes clients drop out of blindness training programs, sometimes they drop out of college and sometimes they just don?t participate effectively with itinerant teachers on the local level. In these cases I don?t think it?s unreasonable to ask for a semester or too close to home just to demonstrate willingness to participate. I think there should be a track record before a client is forced into such a decision. Otherwise, I think we should be able to take a client who has not demonstrated a failure to cooperate at his or her word.
On the third hand, yes, I have three hands, If a persons school of choice is already close enough to them that she or he can jump on a city bus and scoot across town while living at home with mom and dad, there is no reason to pay for a door. That one is actually a waste of money and the client should be encouraged to get an apartment if she or he wants to move out of mom or dad?s house. I got my bachelors degree at a four-year university but I moved to that town and lived there to do so. I was more than ready to get away from my parents and they didn?t live in a town with any transportation. They actually lived out in the country and I wanted a city with buses. I didn?t get a city but I did get the buses. Eventually I got a city. Even when I went to tech, I considered not living in the dorms and getting an apartment like some of my friends were doing but with it being a 15 month program, I decided I wouldn?t be there long enough to do A 12 month lease twice in a row. I needed the dorm to have a place to land and get my sea legs under me in a new town anyway. Still, VR made me pay the dorm fees as my rent. I understand that was a long time ago but I think some of the principles are still applicable.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 23, 2021, at 11:25 AM, Justin Salisbury > wrote:
?
Hi everyone,
I want to use this list to bounce an idea off my many kindred spirits here.
There are some states whose VR agencies appear to have policies (or perhaps routine practices that exist without being written anywhere) which basically push blind college students in VR programs to choose colleges that are close to home so that they can live with family in order to cut costs. I may get a detail wrong while articulating each policy, but I think the idea is important. I intend to get all the details right in time, so please do not allow an error in a policy detail to prevent you from considering the idea.
Example 1: Michigan
#From what I hear from the Michigan students, there is a policy of VR paying only for community college (or the community college rate) for the first two years, then the four-year college rate for years 3 and 4 to get a bachelor?s degree. There seems to be a spoken justification that attending community college and staying at home with family is an equal service to going to a four-year college and that living away from home is not part of preparing for employment.
Example 2: Louisiana
#From what I hear from Louisiana students, there is a policy of VR only paying for housing at a university if that university is located at least 100 miles away from home. This means that a student from Baton Rouge, for example, would need to attend a school as far away as Louisiana Tech if they want to be supported by VR to live on campus, even when LSU, also a great university, is right there in town.
My opinion?which I think many of you will share?is that being able to live away from your parents creates a lot of opportunities for academic and developmental experiences that will help a blind student prepare for employment. I am certain that the experiences I had because I lived away from my parents during all of my college years helped me advance in social skills, learn about myself, learn how to function independently, and adjust more fully to a sense that I am worthy of equal treatment in society. I understand that there are other lists related to rehab, but I chose this list because I can safely expect a common understanding of the importance of the adjustment to blindness and developmental experiences in the process of preparing for employment.
I don?t know if there is any formal guidance from RSA that advises VR agencies that these experiences and their enhancement of the VR process should be considered when crafting policies and making individual case decisions about paying for housing while attending higher education programs. Is there?
If not, I am contemplating drafting a resolution for the NFB convention that would basically request that RSA issue formal guidance to VR agencies serving the blind, acknowledging that living away from family is an important part of preparing for employment and advising them that it is best not to implement policies that restrict a consumer?s ability to seek VR financial support for housing while attending higher education. I am certainly open to suggestions on how this ask should be tweaked.
What do you all think?
Thanks so much,
Justin
Justin Mark Hideaki Salisbury
he/him/his
Phone: 808.797.8606
Email: President at Alumni.ECU.edu
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-salisbury
ResearchGate: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin_Salisbury
?Once social change begins, it cannot be reversed. You cannot un-educate the person who has learned to read. You cannot humiliate the person who feels pride. You cannot oppress the people who are not afraid anymore.?
Cesar Chavez
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